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The Invisible Wounds of Narcissistic Abuse: #IfMyWoundsWereVisible

Hey. Aloha, everybody. Welcome to Live Q&A, here on Trauma Recovery
University. My name is Athena Moberg. And I come here every week and I hang out
with all of you guys here in the adult survivor of childhood abuse community specifically
childhood sexual abuse, narcissistic abuse, physical abuse – you name it. We come here, and we hang out live, and I
answer your questions. And we just have open discussion, and we support
one another, and I hop in here every week. So for all of you on Roku and YouTube live,
thank you so much for all the thumbs-up and for the shares and for all the five-star reviews
on Roku. And just so you know, I’m broadcasting here
on Periscope and up on Facebook live as well. So I have awesome volunteers. Matt and Dawn are behind the scenes and they’re
making sure that all of your questions get answered and… or get relayed to me so that
I can answer your questions. So last week if you joined us, you know that
we are ramping up and sort of preparing for World Narcissistic Abuse Awareness Day which
is every year on June first. The very first time I ever posted a summit
here was in 2015; and it was for the Healing Narcissistic Abuse Virtual Summit. And Richard Grannon has been part of like
coach team and he was one of our guest speakers. And then, Bree Bonchay, who’s an author and
a licensed clinical social worker and a group forum leader, came and shared as well. And that was somewhat of a hit. And we had a couple thousand people watch
that. And it’s four and a half hours long. And for a couple of thousand people to watch
that – four and a half hours – it’s pretty amazing. So we, Bobbi and I – who started this YouTube
channel – we recorded a video on narcissistic, the after effects of narcissistic parents,
adult survivors who grew up in a home where there were one or more narcissistically abusive
caregivers… Hi Heather. I’m so excited you’re here. And actually, Heather shared some really valuable
information from a conference she just attended. So I’m really excited to share some of the
things that she learned from… And I always say his name wrong. It’s not Dr. Tysure. I think it might be…Maybe this Dr.Tysure. Maybe I’m saying it right. Maybe it’s Tycure. But anyway, he was one of the speakers the
trauma conference. She will be sharing some valuable information
there. Just if you guys haven’t seen that video,
that’s fine. It’s here on our channel. It was from a couple years ago and it’s titled
Healing from Narcissistic Abuse Virtual Summit 2015.Again, it’s four and a half hours. It’s crazy but we have received hundreds of
e-mails and just people saying, “Wow, I had light bulb moments. Wow, I really need to hear that.” And that video – first the narcissistic
parents’ video that Bobbi and I did almost three years ago – is what prompted this
sort of… Dr.Tysure. Yes, I pronounced it right… is what prompted
us to start digging into the after-effects of emotional abuse and specifically narcissistic
abuse which is a thing. And we weren’t very well-versed in it a
few years ago when we recorded that video. In fact, if you watch our narcissistic parents’
video, there are eleven thousand views. I’m certain that at least half of them, if
not most of them – people are laughing going, “These girls don’t really know very much
about narcissistic abuse,” because it really is just something very… We’re not very well-versed in the topic. Well, we started delving deeper. I started purchasing books. I started attending webinars. I started going to conferences. I started becoming more well-versed and knowledgeable
on the topic and began subscribing the YouTube channels, began reaching out to experts in
this particular topic, reached out to Bree Bonchay, read one of the articles that she
wrote. And it was it was very moving and it was eye-opening
and it was, for a lot of people, very transformational. So hey, hi 82Inspire. I’m so excited that you’re here. Welcome to Periscope. And thank you, by the way for sharing that
video earlier today. I really, really, really appreciate it. Yeah, it was just really eye-opening for us. And so I reached out to Bree Bonchay. And I asked her if she would be interested
in collaborating with me and sort of speaking at the Narcissistic Abuse… Healing from Narcissistic Abuse Virtual Summit
– the first of its kind, like there had never been one done. And she’s like, “Absolutely, I would.”And
so that kind of sparks just even more. And she already had a blog that was quickly
growing. And the blog she started was actually just
for therapeutic reasons just to heal from her own narcissistically abusive interpersonal
relationship in adulthood, not narcissistic parents. But of course, personality disordered people,
as we know, they can exist. They interact with us. They can be bosses, co-workers, friends. It can be a parent. It could be a sibling. It could be an aunt, an uncle. There are just many different interpersonal
relationships that obviously we have and anyone of those can be someone who is personality
disordered. Well, the aftereffects – the damaging aftereffects
specifically of narcissistic abuse – are mind blowing and where people are just questioning
their reality, questioning their sanity. And it’s something that stays. It makes its way into the core of your being. And it damages your core beliefs about life,
your worldview like we discussed last week. And it’s really damaging. And so, we decided to start delving deeper,
reading more, studying more. Again, I mentioned like just attending webinars
and conferences, and reading books, and just becoming educated on the topic. Thank you so much for all the hearts on Periscope,
you guys. I’m telling you YouTube needs to upgrade
on like beautiful little ways to like interact during live video… When we started delving deeper into this topic,
it became very, very clear that we needed to continue to open up forums. And what Bree was doing…If you want to check
out Bree’s work, you can go to freefromtoxic.com. The work is mind blowing. The space that we’re in here we’re not sensationalizing
psychopathy or, you know, calling everybody in the world a “narcissist”. But if you haven’t subscribed to, perhaps,
Lisa Romano’s channel or Richard Grannon’s channel, or if you haven’t heard of Sandra
Brown – these are people that, if you have incurred narcissistic abuse, I’ll highly
recommend that you… to familiarize yourself with these authors, these speakers, these
practitioners, these experts, so that you will know how to heal, and the inner workings
of what has gone on, and the mind-mockery, and just the psychological warfare that really
goes on in narcissistic abuse. So…That’s a little bit about what we’re
going to be talking about tonight. Typically, every single week, we show, we
do live Q&A here on this channel for the abuse survivor community. A lot of times, the topics are very specific
to childhood sexual abuse. What we found is that if someone endured childhood
sexual abuse in the home – in the home, among a family member or a loved one that
was in the home – the likelihood of the person that perpetrated the childhood sexual
abuse onto the survivor who’s here in the out watching this channel…The likelihood
of that person being narcissistically abusive – perhaps, diagnosed or undiagnosed with
psychopathy, anti-social personality disorder, borderline, someone that is predatory – the
likelihood of the childhood sexual abuse happening by a personality disordered individual, percentage
is way, way, way, way high if the abuse happened in the home. Now, if your child sexual abuse happened outside
the home and perhaps it was like the pastor, it was an uncle, it was a grandpa, it was
a neighbor – it was something that happened outside the home –perhaps, this video tonight
isn’t going to be helpful for you. But share this with someone you love. Share this… This is a huge deal, you guys. There are hundred and fifty-eight million
people that are affected by narcissistic abuse here, just right now, this present day. Hey, Adrenaline Junkie, thank you so much
for joining my Periscope. Yey, I’m so excited that you’re here. So all you guys up there on Facebook, I’m
really excited you’re here as well. The writing is so, so, so, so small. I think I see Shy Sharon. Hi Sharon, I think it’s you. I’m squinting. So that’s what we’re talking about tonight,
guys. And I am so happy you’re here. So we’re talking about the invisible wound
of narcissistic abuse and emotional abuse tonight. So what I would love to do is share with you
guys a little bit of what is going on in the narcissistic abuse community and what we’re
doing to serve the community of people who are reeling and spinning from narcissistic
abuse. So in a couple of weeks we’re going to be…World
Narcissistic Abuse Awareness Day, by the way, is June first, every year. This is the second annual. And this is the second annual virtual summit
that we’re doing in honor of healing narcissistic abuse, healing from narcissistic abuse. Thank you so much for re-tweeting. Thank you so much for inviting your followers. Thank you so much. Thank you for… just thank you for all of
your support. For the hearts, thank you for all it, guys. You guys are amazing. And so what I’d like to do is I’d like to
share just a little bit here. I had a little screen share that I was sharing
with you guys. And… here we go. And I’m going to actually get right to your
questions once I get to do this screen share here. I also wanted to share the video. I shared a little bit over in the YouTube
chat, the live chat. And the very, very beginning of the chat I
was sharing that we’re doing tonight is we’re doing like, “If my wounds were visible,”
and then filling in the blank. #IfMyWoundsWereVisible. Hey Shy Sharon! I’m so excited to see you on Periscope as
well. You’re, sort of like, in two places at once. It’s amazing. So what I did is I shared #IfMyWoundsWereVisible. And for me personally, it was “If my wounds
were visible, maybe the police would have taken me seriously when I was sharing with
them what was going on in my home when I was a child. If my wounds were visible, maybe the school
counselor would have done more instead of, you know, calling my parents. If my wounds were visible, maybe I would have
been rescued –maybe, my dad would’ve rescued me. Maybe, I would have been worth saving. If my wounds were visible, my family – a
lot of my family members – would have been in prison.” Hey. It’s good to see you, Aschondra. I hope I said your name right. I am well. Thank you, Aschondra – Aschondar Massu… I don’t know if I’m saying it right. Thanks for being here. Oh. Hi 7107Lily, seventy… seventy-one, O, seven
Lily. It’s just my fourth time here on Periscope. “If my wounds were visible, no one would
wonder why.” Oh, I missed it. It went away. Dang it. So I shared “If my wounds were visible,
perhaps, I would have been worth rescuing. Perhaps, the police would’ve done something
sooner. Perhaps, I would have been rescued when I
was an infant instead of struggling for decades. Hi Michelle, I’m so excited to meet you; great
to have you here. If my wounds were visible, perhaps, I would
have been rescued when I was an infant and I wouldn’t have struggled for decades with
my sanity – and you know, just trying to grasp onto my sanity. Just trying to, you know, “Keep it together,
Athena. Keep it together. You have a child to raise. You have a job to go to. You have a life to live. You’ve all these relationships you need
to sort of manage. And you have all these people to please and
all these family members to try to bow down to.” And you know, it was just so exhausting, so
crazy. And it was just really kind of a repose. So what I would like to do… Oh, you guys over on freefromtoxic.com, Bree
just posted a new blog post. “If my wants were visible, I would be in
the I.C.U.,”Shy Sharon says. Yes. Simney says, “If my wounds are visible,
no one would wonder why I’m not over it at age forty-eight.”Yeah. Hey, welcome Identity Dess. So good to see you. Is that Jess? It might be Jess. If it is, hi. And if it’s not, hi. So I’m going to share the screen share with
you guys super-duper quicksand then, I want to share really quick… I want to share a video with you super briefly. So I hope you guys can see this. Alright. So over on WNAAD.com, WorldNarcissisticAbuseAwarenessDay.com… Hey, it’s so good to see you Jess. …then you’ll see that Bree Bonchay and myself,
we are partnering up. We’re coming together to share a message of
hope. Hope, big fat hope. We want to share hope. So on June first, we’re going to be live all
day, just different places – YouTube live, Facebook, Roku, Periscope, Twitter. And then, plus, we’re going to be sending
e-mails out. We’re doing all these interviews – these
pre-recorded interviews – with different experts. We’re going to deliver those to you via
e-mail during the entire month of June. Hi Sarah. I’m so excited you’re here. Welcome. Welcome. Thank you so much for the hearts, you guys. So during the entire month of June, we are
going to be sharing those pre-recorded expert interviews with you in your e-mail box when
you sign up over on WNAAD.com. And I know that there are one thousand seven
hundred and something of you that have subscribed to my e-mail, like from No More Shame Project
and Trauma Recovery University; and you’re already signed up. And I’m going to be sending you all the e-mail
and just updating you on everything. And hopefully, that’s okay. It’s on narcissistic abuse trauma and sexual
abuse. But I mean, if I get one thousand seven hundred
and something of you upset with me for sharing about narcissistic abuse awareness, then I’ll
be super bum. So I just hope it’s okay that I share the
information with you. So for World Narcissistic Abuse Awareness
Day, Bree Bonchay and myself are partnering up and we’re going to be sharing the message
of hope. And Richard Grannon’s going to stop by. Sandra Brown’s going to stop by. There’s a couple of these other YouTubers
that have reached out actually; and they’re going to be stopping by. I’m so excited. Lisa Romano is doing an interview with us. We are going to be interviewing all these
different doctors and people that have studied neuroscience. And it’s just going to be amazing. Hey, Sue has already signed-up. Good job, Simney. High five. I am so excited. I’m so excited for this. You guys, this is really amazing. So if I can find this video really quick… I hope I can find this video. If I cannot, I’ll gonna be super-bummed. Here we go. OK. I think. I have found the video. So what I’m going to do now is I’m going to
stop sharing this screen share. I’m going to say hi to you guys over there
on Roku and on YouTube live. And I know, Facebook live have the fancy screen
shares. And then, thank you for all the hearts on
Periscope. You guys here, you are so awesome. I feel so loved. Oh my goodness. So you guys, do have the fancy screen share. So what I want to do is I want to turn up
the volume here. I’m hoping you guys can hear this video. I’m going to screen share the video and
just to prompt the conversation. We’re having important conversations tonight,
you guys – “If my wounds were visible, (fill in the blank).”Like, what would people
know? What would they finally know? What do you wish they would know – like
parents, siblings, loved ones – people that told you to get over it? Like a lot of times, there isn’t… there are no like bruises or scars or scrapes. Your hair is not lit on fire. You know, you’re not in the E.R. over emotional
abuse, narcissistic abuse, and other types of abuse. So if your wounds were visible, filling the
blank. Right? So I’m going to do the screen share. I’m hoping you guys can see this. I’m hoping it works. And tell me if this does work. Here we go, you guys. You are not still invisible here. Hahaha. Galatians, you’re not invisible. I see you. Here we go. I’m going to press… I’m just trying to multi-task too much. I’m so sorry. I’m so sorry for not being as attentive as
I need to be. Oh my goodness. I’m going to press “play” now, guys. Here we go. This is the conversation we’re having right
here. If my wounds were visible, the family court
system would view narcissistic abuse the same as an abuse, physical abuse. If my wounds were visible, you’ll cringe
at the amount of damage behind my smile. If my wounds were visible, everyone would
learn the warning signs and red flags of narcissistic abuse in high school. If my wounds were visible, they’ll understand
why it’s taking me so long to heal and be amazed that I have survived. If my wounds were visible, you would understand
that abuse isn’t always physical. If my wounds were visible, my teachers would’ve
protected me and called Child Protective Services. If my wounds were visible, could you still
look at me and tell me that it wasn’t that bad and that I could just get over it? If my wounds were visible, I would be at the
place that will help me and my children, instead of leaving me out. If my wounds were visible, he’d be in prison. If my wounds were visible, you wouldn’t recognize
me but you would finally, hopefully recognize narcissistic abuse. World Narcissistic Abuse Awareness Day, June
first, #IfMyWoundsWereVisible, WNAAD.com. Shout out to Janie, Khalisia, Griffin, Monica,
Heather, BJ, Janelle, Ann, Kedra, and Jerik, for being so brave and being… just standing
there and sharing their truths so that they can be on that video. That video made me cry too, Simney, the first
time I watched it. It did. It made me cry. I just want you to know, was produced Bree
Bonchay and a colleague of hers named Ned Collins, and who is also the director. And then, the production assistant is Jerika
Troquio. And I believe, if I’m not mistaken, Jerika
is also doing a whole bunch of behind-the-scenes work on WNAAD.com, sort of writing of the
copy and just sharing the message. “If everyone’s wounds were visible, we
would stand by and do nothing.” That’s not true. Who wrote that? Maybe, its “We wouldn’t stand by and do
nothing.” Maybe, that’s what you meant. Maybe, I read it wrong coz it goes away so
fast. Goodness. Alright. Here you guys. OK .So what do you think? If your wounds were visible, I want to share. I want to hear your voice. Yes. We would not stand by. We would not stand by and do nothing. You’re right, Heather. And really quick, I want to share an e-mail
that Heather sent me, you guys, superfast. I hope it’s okay that I share this e-mail,
Heather, with everybody, neuroscience information on emotional abuse manipulation. You guys, Heather just went to this trauma
conference up in Canada that I was supposed to attend and that Matt was supposed to attend. But Matt enrolled in school because he’s becoming
a trauma recovery coach. And I had to sign papers because we were selling
our home. Thank you for all the hearts on Periscope,
you guys. And thanks for all you peep up on Facebook
live. You guys are just rock star amazing. I love you. So we didn’t get to attend this conference
with Heather. So I’m sort of like pinky promised in a way
that I was going to go next year and I’m kind of hoping that Matt will go next year too. And then, I know that there’s another gal
in our community named Monique. And she’s going to be going really soon. “If my wounds were visible, nobody would
tell me I shouldn’t cry when it hurts.” Exactly, yes. You guys, share your truth. Share your heart. So there’s this gal in our community, her
name is Monique, and she’s going to this conference hosted by Laurie Gill which I’m
trying to get her to speak at our summit. I have a call with her this week. I forget. I don’t think I confirmed. But I think it’s tomorrow. Anyway, we’re trying to get Laurie Gill to
speak at our virtual event. And that’s who’s hosting the conference
up in Canada. And so, Monique’s going up there, I believe
in July. And I want to go next April. So I’m sort of planning on doing that. I’m really excited. I want to share this e-mail with you guys
really quick, from Heather. Here we go. I hope this works. Emotional abuse includes the following: witnessing
domestic violence, parental verbal abuse, parental emotional manipulation, peer verbal
abuse, peer emotional manipulation. And emotional abuse is the greatest direct
risk factor for the development of depressive and anxiety disorders. It’s a greater risk factor than physical
or sexual abuse or even neglect. This information that has been shared by Heather
Tooba whose an advocate – a fierce advocate – in our community and there from her notes
that she took at this trauma conference in Canada. The trauma conference she attended is over
by Niagara Falls. So it’s over on the east side of Canada. And there is a doctor who was a guest speaker. Oh no, I’m so bummed. It’s blurry. What a bummer. Oh… in Toronto. Thank you so much, Heather. So in Toronto, that’s where this conference
is. And Dr. Martin Tysure – from the Department
of Developmental Bio psychiatry from Harvard Medical School – he’s the person who was
part of this presentation – Dr. Martin Tysure – and again, Department of Developmental
Biopsychiatry at Harvard Medical School. He’s the gentleman who actually shared and
these are from Heather’s notes from the trauma conference. So I’m going to go right now. Which by the way… have many of the whole
bunch of us got to attend this trauma conference? You don’t have to be a helping professional. You don’t have to be a certified professional
coach. You don’t have to be a… Hey Rey. I’m so excited to join. Welcome, welcome. You don’t have to be a doctor. You don’t have to be a master’s level therapist. You don’t have to be a licensed clinical social
worker. You only have to be you and be interested
and care about advocating for yourself and for others if you want to attend this conference. So it’s in Toronto and it’s twice a year. And I’m really excited to go. So that would be amazing. But I want to head over right now to all of
the #IfMyWoundsWereVisible comments. And just, I want to hear your heart. I want to hear you. I want to hear you tell me, “Athena, if
my wounds were visible, and maybe I wouldn’t struggle so much.” “If my wounds were visible, this would’ve
happened instead of this.” I would love to just hear your heart. And I’m assuming and I bet you guys shared
a lot behind the scenes while I’ve been sharing the screen shares and doing the teaching
portion. I’m just going to go over now. And I just want to support you guys. And I want to just send you high fives. And I want to encourage you. I want to validate you… and answer your
questions. So here we go, guys. Oh my goodness, there’s a lot Oh my goodness. OK. Here we go. Sabra… Oh. Matt, can you please remind me how to pronounce
Sabra’s name? Because I think I’m mispronouncing Sabra’s… I’m mispronouncing Ms. Cane’s name. And I don’t want to mispronounce her name. I think it’s/Say-bra/ if I’m not mistaken. Sabra says, “If my wounds were visible,
no one can deny what happened to me.” Joey says, “If my wounds were visible, people
would see why it’s taking me so long to heal and stop saying just get over it. And maybe, my teachers when I was in school
could have prevented it from happening.” Amanda says, “If my wounds were visible,
I would have had the opportunity to learn what healthy boundaries and healthy relationships
look like.” Me too, Amanda. Jack says, “I’m still struggling to really
come to grips with my mother abusing me in a narcissistic way. Does it get better?” Well Jack, thank you for asking that question. I’m sure a lot of people are struggling with
that question. I don’t want to say that it gets better. I do want to say that you will learn to bear
the weight of the pain skillfully. Sabra, thank you so much. Thank you. Like a saver to tiger, yes. Thank you, Saver… Sabra. Thank you so much. I want to pronounce your name correctly. So Jack, it doesn’t necessarily get better. But I will say that over time – as we choose
to do the hard work, as we choose to heal, and as we choose to dig into the deeper areas
of our healing journey – we learn to bear the weight of the pain skillfully and it hurts
less over time at moments. And then at moments, it hurts even more. So I don’t want to say it’s better. But we do learn to bear the weight of it skillfully. And for me personally, you guys know I’m a
woman of faith – my faith journey. My faith was just crushed and rocked in so
many different ways and just…but it’s strengthened my faith… if that makes any
sense. I know it’s very counterintuitive to say that
this journey has strengthened my faith but I don’t believe that my faith was ever tested. I had this big faith in God; and this big
faith that God could do anything and that he was amazing. And I knew, for certain, that my life had
been transformed supernaturally. But my faith had never been tested until I
began to fully accept the reality of my abuse and the multiple different channels that my
abuse was perpetrated in the ways that it was perpetrated on me, and the different people
that it came from, the ways I was manipulated, the lies I was told to cover up after cover
up after cover up after cover up. My faith was tested in ways that I wouldn’t
wish on anyone. And ultimately, I found peace in believing
in something bigger than myself. And I know that’s not the same for everyone
especially with all of the religious abuse that goes on in our community, and the cult
abuse, and the ritual abuse, and just all of it. It is just so devastating and it makes it
difficult for survivors to believe in anything bigger than themselves because then, you have
to reconcile. Well, if there is something bigger than me,
then where were they? And the reality for me, in my journey, has
been to come to grips with the fact that my higher power was there; but unfortunately,
everyone has a free will choice and the people in my life – the cards I was dealt, the
family I was dealt, the situation I was born into – the free will choice that they had
one choice. And what they used up their free will choice
on is to allow people to exploit me, trade me, give me away, abuse me, use me, and nearly
kill me. And that was what their free will choice was
used on. And that was devastating for me to grasp. And that I wasn’t worth saving. And that was painful. But I have learned to bear the weight of the
pain skillfully… Hi Kimmy. I’m so excited you’re here. I have learned to bear the weight of the pain
skillfully. And so, I won’t say that it’s gotten better. But I will say that my faith has been strengthened. It’s been tested. It’s been through fire. It’s been through everything. And I do feel a little bit more rock solid,
if you will, in my faith after all of the realities that sort of set in. And I’m looking at it for what it is and looking
at it for like, you know, God didn’t come down here and sexually abused me. And you know, God didn’t pimp me out to people
so they could get manicures and pedicures. And God didn’t give me away to his family
members; like, no, those are my family members that did that. God didn’t sit by while I was abused, and
manipulated and bullied, and beaten, and neglected, and hungry, and just treated poorly, and forced
to work outside in the sun and pull weeds and when everybody else was going to birthday
parties; like, God didn’t do those things. No. I can tell you right now who did those things. And they all have names. And they’re all humans that had a free will
choice. And that’s where my anger is at. It used to be God I used to be passed used
to be very angry with God. And you know what? It took a really long time for me to like
call it what it was. It was easier… Here we go. This is all I will say right now. It was easier for me to be mad at God because
that’s thing. You know, being mad at God is a thing. And it was easier for me to be mad at him
and blame him for all the bad stuff than to face the reality that the people I loved,
and trusted, and cared for betrayed me, and used me, and abused me, and pimped me out,
and tortured me, and beat me, and made sure that I suffered every single day. It was easier for me to be mad at God then
to accept all of that truth. So that’s where I’m coming from here today. And I’m glad you asked that question, Jack,
because “Does it get better?” No, but I have learned to bear the weight
of the pain skillfully and I will continue to bear the weight of this pain skillfully. Simney says, “I felt the same way. I learned that God understood my anger and
he loved me anyway.” Yeah. Yeah. It’s a lot easier for me to be stuck in God
than to accept the reality of what happened within my family unit, because my mommy was
supposed to love me, and my daddy was supposed to protect me. And my aunties and my uncles and my cousins
– they were all supposed to love me and like me. And my teachers were supposed to do the right
thing. And the police were supposed to do the right
thing. And guess what? All those fuckers failed. All of them because they’re human; and that’s
what humans do – they fail. So pardon the language. Sorry if I triggered anybody with my language. It triggers me sometimes. So I’m really sorry if I triggered anybody. But thanks for asking for that question. Amanda says, “If my wounds were visible,
it would be a picture of a small girl curled up in a ball protecting herself with her heart
and her self-esteem carved out of her heart and her self-esteem carved out of her.” Wow. What imagery! If Amanda’s wounds were visible, everyone
would see a picture of a small girl curled up in a ball protecting herself with her heart
and her self-esteem carved out of her. Yeah. Stew says thumbs-up. Yes, exactly. Hey Greg or Gregorina. Nice to meet you. Nice to see you. I’m so happy you’re here. I agree, Amanda. Me too. Oh my God. I got hearts for the f***… I thought it was going to trigger people. Yeah, I got hearts for the f***… Julie says, “If my wounds were visible,
nobody would tell me I should be over it by now.” Amanda has a question. She says, “What are some signs or symptoms
that we are healing from narcissistic abuse or we have healed from it?” I am so happy you asked that, Amanda, because
I’m going to be popping up a screen share in just a little bit. And I’m going to share that with you if that’s
okay. I’m going to go through… Amanda, you’re on YouTube right now. So I’m going to go through the rest of the
comments and questions and I’ll pop-up that screen share – coz we’re sharing a message
of hope here. Ray, I want to answer that question and give
you all some hope. First, I just need to drink a lot…Thank
you so much. I’m very thirsty. Hey Vinnie. I’m so excited to see you, Vinnie. Vinnie’s over on Twitter right now. Usually, Vinnie’s over here on Periscope. I am hoping that Vinnie’s still here because
she sent this message like a half an hour ago. So maybe, she’s not here anymore. Vinnie says, “If my wounds were visible,
you would feel mentally overcrowded.” Yeah. Tee says, “If my wounds were visible, maybe
my mom would’ve believed me when I asked her to take me away.” Yes. Katie Welch upon Facebook says, “If my wounds
were visible, people would understand me better especially my family.” Yeah. John Harvey says, “If my wounds were visible,
people would have understood me better.” Yeah. Dawn. Oh my gosh. Dawn, you’re here. I love it that you’re here. It’s so good to see you. Dawn says, “If my wounds were visible, no
one would act jealous toward me.”Yes, exactly. I have that too. My aunts and my uncles – they used to tell
me…They were the must-be-nicers, must be nice. “You must be nice, Athena. You are the only child”
Hey Grace Hope. I’m so excited to see you. Welcome, welcome. And thanks for all the hearts, you guys. And thank you for inviting. You’re so amazing. So many people are going to be helped because
of you, and you, and you. Yeah, Dawn. This is a me-too moment because I had all
my aunts and uncles telling me I must be nice. Now mind you, all of my aunts and uncles were
one of seven. And there was poverty going on. And so when there is less than and you’re
one of seven; like, you got to hurry up and eat. You don’t always have the clothing. It’s a bad situation. Hey Servive Poppy. I see, it’s so good to see you. I’m so happy you’re here. So yeah, Dawn I had the must-be-nicers – everything,
no matter what – must be nice, must be nice. If I managed to keep it together and get good
grades, it was must be nice that you can get good grades. It must be nice you have an education. We only got to go to school till seventh grade
or whatever. You know, it’s just like it was just ughhh;
and they were all very jealous of me. And they took it out of me this good of me. And they made sure that I got bullied whenever
possible because must be nice, you know. But if my wounds were visible, no one would
have been jealous towards me either, Dawn. Acope says, “If my wounds were visible,
maybe I could have been a child.” Yeah. Yes, yes, yes. Dominic. Dominic says, “If my wounds were visible,
people would wonder how I managed to stay alive for so long.” Yeah. Thank you so much for being here, Dominic. I’m so happy to see you. I’m always so happy to see you but I’m
really happy that you’re here for this conversation because I have the privilege of knowing a
little bit of your back story and I’m so happy you’re here. Vinnie, hi! I’m so happy to see you. Thank you for sharing. Thank you for sharing your “If my wounds
were visible…” Thank you. August says, “If my wounds were visible,
people would believe me and they would’ve helped me get out.” Yeah. Me too, August. Jamie says, “If my wounds were visible,
I would not have suffered all alone all this time.” Me too, Jamie. Dominic says, “If my wounds were visible,
I would never have to endure the “What’s wrong with you?” question.” Yeah. Kiera says, “If my wounds were visible,
the police and my nuns would have believed me too. And they would not have given me back to my
mom.” Yeah. Same here, Keira. Mine is the nuns. Although I did good at catechism, I was forced
to go to catechism. All you guys, like when I got to go to church,
like it was a good thing for me. It was a place where I found refuge. The views that I was enduring and incurring
and that was perpetrated upon me was not by the people at the church. They were the ones where I found the solace
and the hope and the kindness which is very opposite flip for a lot of people in our community. Shy Sharon says, “If my wounds were visible,
someone would have protected me.” Me too, Sharon. Me too, you’re not alone. Yeah. So for me, Keira… “If my wounds were visible, the police would
have believed me and it would not have given me that my mom.” Yes, yes, yes, a hundred percent. But for you, the nuns were involved as well
which is a twisted deal. And it means that there’s not really a place
for you to find solace and hope and peace because there’s that whole twisted religious
part of it which just messes up our recovery and makes it way more complicated – complicated
grief, complex trauma., Complicated grief is very hard to process because it’s complicated. But I mean, complex trauma, complicated grief
– you combine everything – and then you add in the whole religious factor; and man
it’s very painful for so many people. I’m so happy you’re here. I’m so excited to see you, Servive Poppy. So yeah, Keira. I’m so excited you shared because yes, yes,
yes, you’re not alone. Keira also says, “If my wounds were visible,
both of my parents would’ve been forced to get help.” Yeah. Hey Paul. I’m so excited you’re here, Paul. Welcome. I’m not sure if I said hi to you on a live
stream before. But if not, I’m so excited you’re here. Thank you for being here up on Facebook. Paul says, “If my wounds were visible, I
would be unrecognizable.” Yeah. Me too, Paul. Wow, that hit me like right in the throat
and in the solar plexus. Service Poppy says, “If my wounds were visible,
the neighbors would have called and my dad would have never brought me back.” Same here. We must have grown up like in the same house. A lot of what you say, like I resonate with,
ServicePoppy. Yeah. Paul, that’s definitely a me-too. I would be unrecognizable. Hi again, Vinnie. Thanks for sharing, Paul. Super powerful and I resonate with that so
deeply. I would definitely be unrecognizable. If my wounds were visible, I would be unrecognizable,
Hi Vinnie. Katie Welch says, “If my wounds were visible,
my family and my friends would understand what I’m actually going through and why I
hide my body.” Oh, that’s a deep one, Katie. That’s a me-too moment also. I struggle also. Yeah. Yeah, it shivers this right. Everybody’s saying hi to Vinnie. Yey. Oh, I’m so happy Vinnie. The #IfMyWoundsWereVisible is actually part
leading up to World Narcissistic Abuse Awareness Day, second annual, and also the Second Healing
from Narcissistic Abuse Virtual Summit being hosted here on Trauma Recovery University
YouTube channel. And I’m going to be here in Periscope. And I’m going to be up on Facebook live. And it’s going to happen all day on June
firsthand then, if you sign up on WNAAD.com, you get all of the expert interviews that
we’re recording behind the scenes. And then, we will be releasing; we’re e-mailing
everybody. So, it’s going to be so fun. Katie Welch, I hide my body too… up there
on Facebook, Katie. I do. I hide my body and I’ve done it for quite
some time. And I go back, and I even see in my yearbook,
oh my gosh, all the way back to high school, even previously, even prior to high school,
even middle school. And I saw picture of me from elementary school
and I was like oh my goodness; like this body dysmorphia, this whole body image issue, food
issue, just issues galore – full subscription of issues – like all of it has been going
on like my entire life, you know. So I resonate deeply with Katie and I’m so
happy that you shared. And thanks for sharing again, Paul. Coz man, I firmly believe that what Paul shared,
“If my wounds were visible, I would be unrecognizable,” I believe that’s a lot of us. Service Poppy says, “If my wounds were visible,
people would understand why I still suffer and why I hide my body.” Yes. Simney says, “If our wounds were visible,
the word “triggered” wouldn’t be used so casually.”Oh my gosh. On that topic really quick, you guys, on the
trigger warning like topic and how people just roll their eyes it and it’s no big
deal. I actually have a family member – it’s one
of my only family members that I even keep in touch with – and there was a situation
going on at the college that they were attending or something. It was like night classes or something. I can’t remember exactly what it was. But there was…there were some trigger warning’s
going on… Hey Amethca. Nice to have you here. Welcome. And this family member of mine was making
fun of the fact that people were triggered by something and saying… Thank you for all the hearts, you guys. You guys are amazing. And she was saying, “Wow. I thought this was college, not kindergarten,”
and just minimizing and making fun of… Yeah right. Like you guys, PTSD is freaking real, like
if there was somebody that had no arms and no legs because they got hit by a roadside
bomb or something happened to them overseas. And they were a veteran and it was like classic
PTSD that happens in war. And just something that people could see like,
if all of our wounds were visible – that’s one of my hashtags, you guys. If all of our wounds were visible, my cousin
wouldn’t be ignorant and make jokes about trigger warnings and that “Oh. I thought this was college, not kindergarten,”
because PTSD is real. And if there are adults that find soothing
in gathering together with one another, or adult coloring books, or calming rooms, or
lavender, or certain types of tea, or certain types of music, or meditation, or different
art therapy and modalities, or going for a walk, or the sounds of waves, or just different
grounding techniques, or whatever it is that helps people with their PTSD… If our wounds were visible, people like that
family member of mine wouldn’t be making fun of everybody. Matt says, “If someone minimizes PTSD, they
probably couldn’t handle living with it.” Yeah, exactly. Thanks for all the hearts. And thanks for inviting all your friends and
for inviting all your followers and for re-tweeting. I’m just so appreciative of all of it, you
guys. Everybody, there’s so many people we’re going
to help. This is amazing. So Vinnie was saying, “Great hashtag topic.”It’s
actually part of World Narcissistic Abuse Awareness Day every year on June first. And I’m so excited to be a part of it. And it’s just exciting – really, really
exciting. So thanks for taking part in all of this,
you guys. We’re going to continue to use this hashtag
all through the month of June. Sorry about that thing you guys. OK. Here we go. Matt says. “If my wounds were visible, the scars would
not be internal only. Yeah. Me too, most definitely. Vinnie says, “If my wounds were visible,
you would not tell me to just let go of the past.” Yeah, same here. Acope says, here on YouTube, “If my wounds
were visible, you wouldn’t wonder why some days’ functioning is merely impossible.” That’s been me-too moment too. I didn’t function pretty well lately. But man, some days are way harder than others. Some days it is merely impossible, I agree
with you. Grace Hope says, “If my wounds were visible,
you wouldn’t tell me to pray harder. You would know that I have been praying hard
my whole life.” Yeah. I was having this conversation. I had the opportunity to have lunch with these
missionaries on Sunday. They’re missionaries in Tanzania. And pause on that story. Simney says, “If my wounds were visible,
I think they would be easier to deal with.” Oh, that’s true, Simney. That’s very, very true. I totally agree. Visible wounds seem like they are easier to
deal with. These people would actually get it. You know, they won’t understand. But I got the opportunity, you guys…Grace
Hope, this is on the topic of what you were saying – about “If my wounds were visible,
you wouldn’t tell me to pray harder. You would know that I’ve been praying hard
my whole life.” So I got to have lunch with these missionaries. It’s the sister of a friend of mine and his
sister’s husband; and they’re missionaries in Tanzania. And we got on the topic of just disservice
that the church, as a whole, does for the community when they minimize people’s trauma. High five, 37O. I’m so excited you’re here. Welcome, welcome. Thanks for all the hearts on Periscope, you
guys. But the disservice that the church is doing
for the community is just, it’s devastating. And quite frankly, it’s embarrassing to be
associated with the body of Christ. It’s embarrassing to be associated with
the Church – the body – that the church as a whole. Welcome back, Jess. It’s embarrassing quite frankly because the
disservice that the church is doing to the community at large is so… it’s devastating
because people will come up. They will attend a church service. They’ll come up for prayer or they will come
up and share something that’s happened to them – like a real trauma, like there was
a rape, there was childhood sexual abuse, or there was an emotional abuse, there’s physical
abuse and some sort of domestic violence, or what have you – there’s something that’s
going on. And what they’re told is that they just need
to pray; or if they prayed, then the reason bad things are happening to them is because
there must be some sort of hidden sin in their life. And that’s why they’re still struggling with
mental illness. And I just want to like… Thank you. Someone just told me, “Don’t ever lose
your realness.” I won’t. Even when I get a hate mail, I won’t. But the disservice that the church is doing
to the community is so incredible… “I did a bunch of bullshit.” Yes. I definitely agree with that. Because you know, mental illness… Newsflash! The brain is an organ. If someone were struggling with like brain
damage from a car accident or they went somewhere and something happened and they had it, like
for instance, one of our friends – both of his legs amputated – and then, he actually
passed away. But no one told him, “Well you know, the
reason you had to have those legs amputated is because there must be some hidden sin in
your life.”Or you know, “The reason that you’re struggling with that Type 1Diabetes
and you were born with it because there must be some hidden sin in your life.” Or you know, “The reason that you’re struggling
with multiple sclerosis and you’re bound to a wheelchair for the last sixty years, there
must have been hidden sin in your life. You just need to pray more. You need to be delivered, that’s what needs
to happen.” Now you guys, poo-pooing on the delivering
ministry. I’m poo-pooing on prayer. I’m not poo-pooing on body Christ. I’m not poo-pooing on the Church, not poo-pooing
on God. I’m not. I’m not. What I do have a problem with is that we claim
to be the hands and feet of Jesus. We claim to be the church. Oh, it’s okay. We claim to be doing good in the world and
to be helping people. But when those people that are suffering and
hurting; and they’re coming up and they’re sharing their trauma with us, and their pain,
and their loss, and their grief, and their struggles, and just what they’re going through…When
we stick a band aid on a bullet wound, we do everyone a disservice. And I’m sorry but you misrepresented God. It’s what’s really happening. If you’re in a church, and someone comes up
for prayer, and you just slap on a Scripture, and you just give him a Scripture, you just
tell him to pray more that there must be a sin in their life, or they just whatever… They just minimize their whole problem that
they came up with all their burdens into this one little Scripture that you want to just
stick on, like a band aid when they’re hemorrhaging at all phases. Shame on you. Shame on us that are doing that, not shame
on this person. It took them months, maybe years, to get the
courage to not only come to church but actually walk forward and ask for prayer. And then, we tell them they had hidden sin. They just need to be delivered. Or we give them a Scripture and we minimize
their truth. And we don’t listen to them. And it’s just wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong,
wrong. It’s wrong in every way. And so yeah. Yeah. Exactly. I just want to just drive this home what Grace
Hope mentioned. Grace Hope says, ‘If my wounds were visible,
you wouldn’t tell me to pray harder. And you would know that I have been praying
hard my whole life.”You know, some people that live with mental illness, some people
that live with clinical depression. Hi. Hi Arandolia. It’s so good… Arandolia, it’s wonderful to meet you. I’m so happy you’re here. Welcome. You know, when we tell people that are struggling
with clinical depression or PTSD or complex PTSD, or we tell people who are living with
any type of invisible illness – Crone’s disease, line disease, any type of chronic
pain – when we tell them that they just need to pray harder, we are doing everyone
a disservice. Hi Lea. It’s my first time…Oh. It’s your first time, Lea. Oh, it’s like my fourth time being here live
on Periscope. Oh. I’m so excited you’re here. Welcome. Welcome. We’re discussing the invisible wounds of emotional
abuse. And I am broadcasting live on YouTube and
on Roku TV. And I’m broadcasting live on Facebook. And I’m so excited you’re here. Lea is a beautiful name. I agree. Hey Charlie. I’m so excited, you’re over on Periscope. Thanks for all the hearts. Oh my goodness. So yeah. Grace Hope, I agree with you wholeheartedly
and that’s actually a very much hot topic for me. It’s just one of my buttons. Tee says, “If my wounds were visible, others
would see what he does to me. And then, he might stop coming back.” I’m so sorry, Tee. I need you guys to know that there are some
people that are still stuck in abusive situations and they don’t have the wherewithal to get
out. And that’s another thing. You know, if our wounds were visible, people
wouldn’t just think that we asked for it. If our wounds were visible, people wouldn’t
think that we choose to stay in abusive relationships. If our wounds were visible, people wouldn’t
say that, you know, “Oh well, you just need to do this,” or “You should do that.” Bree and I were interviewing a practitioner
– one of the experts that’s speaking for the summit. And he said… Oh Lea, I’m so sorry. Leah says that she just got out of a really
abusive relationship. I’m so sorry. I’ve been there, Lea. I was involved with domestic violence myself
for years and years and years. It was horrific. And I grew up in a domestic violence situation
so I really knew. I didn’t know that it was horrific when it
was horrific because it wasn’t that bad as my upbringing. If that makes any sense, so you’re not alone. You’re in a good place here with us, this
safe spot for you. I lost my train of thought. I’m so sorry. Oh. We were talking to this gentleman that we
were interviewing – that Bree and I were interviewing him for the summit. And we asked him a question about, you know,
what he would like to share with our listeners who have survived a narcissistic relationship,
you know, with tremendous emotional abuse. And he was sharing his heart and sharing what
he would like to share. I don’t want to give you any spoiler alerts
because it’s just going to be amazing interviews. You guys are going to love all the interviews. And then I said, “What would you say to
the member of my community that has gone to therapy and that has gone to counseling or
has gone to see a helping professional; and they’ve been told that they’re making it up,
or they’re malingerer, or they just need to do this, they should be better by now, they
should be healing faster, etc. etc. etc.?”And he was so almost angered by the fact that
that’s actually going on. And he said, “Well, first of all, I would
have put their hand on their face and move their hand down their face; and say that they
need to wipe the should off of their face.” And he said, “You know, what should sound
like, right?”It sounds like yes. So if any helping professional out there who
is not trauma-informed, because if they are trauma-informed, they would never do this. Thanks for all the hearts, guys. Hey Hapcocan. Welcome. Welcome. Ignore the trolls, everyone. So yeah. And what he was saying is I would tell them
to wipe the should off their face because you know what should sounds like. It was really great to know that there was
this practitioner. And so for any of you out there who are not
trauma…You know, you’re going to a practitioner who’s not trauma informed; and they’re telling
you that you should be healing better, or you should be healing faster, or you should
be, you know, fill in the blank, you don’t have to receive those messages. You do not have to internalize those messages
from these practitioners who are not trauma-informed, for sure. Hey, I’m so excited you’re here. Hi A2Inspire. Hi Look at Forever. It’s so good to have you. Welcome. Welcome. Thanks for all the hearts. Thanks, Lily. Thanks for all the hearts. Oh my goodness, it’s Sue. Hi Sue. You guys, Sue is here. Shiny Blue Dress is here. Oh my goodness. It’s so good to have you. Eulagne, is that you? I think that is Eulagne. Oh my goodness. Hey guys, thanks so much. Sue is in a tea break. She’s it on the night shift, of course. Sue’s amazing. You guys, she’s a fierce advocate. Oh my goodness. This is so awesome. Dominic says, “If my wounds were visible,
I could enjoy my passion for acting because no one would use it to minimize my abuse.” Oww. Dominic, I just wish I could just send you
so many high fives and hugs and support and validation because I’ve seen you do some acting
and some, you know, just performance. And I’ve seen you be in your element, I remember,
for my birthday. And I just want to encourage you to chase
after that with all your heart because you’re just in your element. It’s just amazing. It really is. And I hope Dominic is still here. She sent that message like half hour ago so
I don’t if Dominic is still here. Dang it. Right, yeah. Do you guys remember Dominic o my birthday? He was amazing. Keira says, “If my wounds were visible,
the police wouldn’t have given me back to my mom when I ran away.” Same here, Keira. You’re not alone most definitely. Hey Hunter! I’m so happy you’re here. “If my wounds had been visible, I would
have bled on my abuser and his enablers’ hands; and then told an adult to guilt them
and protect other victims from getting hurt.” Yes. Yes. Yes, we would have bled all over the place
if our wounds were visible. I agree, Hunter. That’s a powerful visual. Paul says, “If my wounds were visible from
childhood, I would be healed by now.” Yeah. Me too, Paul. Me too… most definitely. Oh, Sabra says, “Athena,…” That was my nickname actually. So that helps to remember. Yey, I’m just going to call you Sabra Tooth
Tiger. Sabra Tooth Tiger, I love it. Grace Hope says, “If my wounds were visible,
she wouldn’t have received a Mother of the Year Award.” Yeah. Oh my goodness, Grace. Oh my goodness. Mary Ann says. “If my wounds were visible,” … I know,
right? Wow… “If my wounds were visible,” Mary Ann
says, “maybe I could have gotten the help I needed to get over fifty years ago.” I’m so happy you’re here, Mary Ann. That is a powerful statement. Mary Ann says, “If my wounds were visible,
maybe I could have gotten the help I needed to get fifty years ago.” I’m so happy you’re here with us now, so happy
you’re here with us now. I know it’s fifty years later. I wish it was sooner also. I really do. I’m so happy you’re here though. Yes, Athena is the name of the great goddess
of wisdom. And she’s also the Greek goddess of war and
basket-weaving and she’s kind of a mishmash of goddesses. There is like basket-weaving handicraft, war,
and wisdom, ad like guitar. She, according to myth mythology – Greek
mythology, she comes from the head of her father Zeus. I know, right. It’s very funny. She’s a mishmash of gods. But hahahhaha, she’s so funny. Oh, Simney says, “She’s cool like you.” Thank you. I haven’t tried basket-weaving yet but you
know… Katie says, “If my wounds were visible,
I would know how to handle my negative and how to be able to see that I don’t mean to
hurt other people because I don’t know how to handle a positive relationship.”You know
what, Katie; that’s a big label moment for a lot of people, most definitely. Because if we don’t have healthy relationships
modeled for us, how are we going to cultivate them in adulthood? Thanks for all the hearts on Periscope, you
guys. Hey Asahelderom81. Oh, Sue is asking me
to tweet out the powerful thing I said about learning to cope with the pain. I’m not able to tweet right now, Sue. But I will say it again. And anyone can.. Where’s Poppy? Poppy makes the best memes. Oh, I want Poppy to make one of those memes
that’s like the gif or the /jif/. It’s amazing. So what I said is our pain doesn’t go away
from narcissistic abuse. Our pain doesn’t go away. Yes, we could forever say you attract what
you know, relationship wise. Yes. If you’re raised and abused, you’re going
to attract, you’re going to seek out what is familiar. So to answer Sue’s question, it’s regarding
our pain; like, does the pain from our…It was sparked by something that Jack had asked
which is “Does it get better?” Does it get easier? Does it get better? And that’s dealing with narcissistic abuse
in childhood. And what I said is no, it doesn’t get easier
and it doesn’t get better. But we learn to bear the weight of the pain
skillfully. We learn to bear the weight of the pain skillfully. I don’t know if I had a word, that in a
way that would make you like mean worthy… or you learn how to deal which is what we
get forever. So that’s a good way to put it to. It just sounds so much more like fancy when
you say you learned to bear the weight of the pain skillfully. But yeah, you learn to deal. “Our pain does not go away. But we learn to bear the weight of the pain
skillfully.”Perfectly put. Yes, Sue. Poppy has made some quotes, like with my name
on them, and she trimmed them into memes. And maybe, I could get her to make me one
of those. I had a client that asked me to make her one
of that exact phrase because that phrase – little light bulb for her. It was like something she really needed to
hear. So maybe, I will ask Poppy to do that. And I will tweet it out. And I will tag you, Sue. Yeah. So Katie, regarding handling a positive relationship,
it is really difficult to handle a positive relationship if all that was modeled for us
was abusive relationships because anything positive that comes along is going to feel
scary because it’s unfamiliar. And so, we seek after what is familiar like
if someone said, “Hey, would you like to try stegosaurs?” And you’d be like, “Stegosaurs? I never tried stegosaurs. What does it taste like?” “Oh. You know, it tastes like a chicken.” And since you’ve tasted chicken, you’re like,
“Oh well if it is like chicken, then yeah, I’ll try a stegosaur.” Like I think that straight out of the flint
stones right there; like, I dug deep for that one. So what I’m saying is, Katie Welch, is that
if someone offered you a bite of something and you’re like, “I’ve never tried that
before. What it’s going to taste like?” And they’re like, “Oh, it tastes like chicken.” And you like chicken or you’re familiar with
chicken; and you’re like, “OK. I’ll try that,” because you’re familiar
with it. But if your recent abuse and you’re looking
at relationships and you’re possibly contemplating getting into interpersonal relationships whether
it’s with a boss, or a friend, or a sibling, or a coworker, or even, you know, a romantic
relationship, and it’s something you’ve never encountered before – it’s like a stegosaurus
or something that you like never heard of or never seen, you are going to tend to shy
away from that. And you’re going to choose something that’s
a little bit more familiar, you know, which is abuse if you grew up in abuse. So even if it’s a less abusive, even if you’re
like, “I grew up in abuse. And I want never abuse in my life,” that
you’re going to choose something that’s less abusive. But there are still going to be traces of
that abuse because it’s difficult to get that out of your system if it’s all you’ve ever
known. So I hope that’s helpful for you, Katie. Dominic says, “If my wounds were visible,
people would understand why I have panic attacks or why I zone out when I’m being evaluated.” Yeah. Oh my goodness. That’s a common one, Dominic. Oh my goodness, you’re not alone. Julie says, “If my wounds were visible,
I would still turn to God first to support. But there would be more people I could turn
to here on Earth too.” Yeah, it’s true. Grace Hope says, “If my wounds were visible,
I wouldn’t have to have secrets. You would know and you would understand.” Yes, that’s powerful, Grace. John Harvey says, “If my wounds were visible,
people could understand why I have a hard time trusting someone.”Yes, yes, yes. Charlie says, “If my wounds were visible,
people would have seen my open wounds, as well as felt them. I could have started healing sooner.”Yes,
that’s powerful, Charlie. Yes. Yes. Yes. I agree. I totally agree. Paul Ward says, “Great to hear your faith
is powerful. I’ve learned that God knows and never leaves
us through all of our abuses. He is faithful.” Yeah. Yeah, that’s what I have come to believe and
understand and know to be true. It’s painful for me to share this statistic
with you all. But I once sent out information to our community
asking people…This is way back like when our community first started… and asking
people what percentage of them or how many of them had experienced abuse by either (a)
clergy member or (b) someone who professed to be, you know, of someone with faith in
God or who was a Christian or who was in a professed to have a relationship with God. And sadly, it was over sixty percent. So the number of people in our community is
over sixty percent who have had that avenue of healing that would help them to have peace
that faith that… that faith and a higher power or that, you know, belief that helped
them to discover peace, or heal, or whatever. They would be able to hand over their burdens
to someone bigger than themselves. That’s almost been stripped away from them
and tainted and ruined and destroyed because sixty two percent of them were either abused
in the church or by someone who professed to have a relationship with God. And that is devastating to me personally,
just knowing how instrumental and how big of a deal my faith is in my healing journey. And I just can’t even wrap my head around
it. And it’s just devastating to me which is why
I’m so passionate about just providing this safe space for everybody – you know, where,
you know, they don’t have to go to a church and be triggered the whole time and then be
minimized and treated horribly. And you know, they can just come here. And they’re not ever going to be treated that
way, no matter what – no matter what faith background they come from. If they have no faith at all, they have nothing;
like, they’re going to come here and they’re going to feel safe. And they’re going to feel validated. And they’re going to feel loved. And they’re going to feel accepted. And they’re going to feel cared for. And they’re going to feel like they can just
be themselves. You know, I’m just really passionate about
that. But thank you so much for sharing that, Paul. It means a lot me. Vinnie says… I lost my place. Did I already read Vinnie’s? No. Vinnie says, “If my wounds were visible,
apathetic people would still be apathetic people.” Oh, that’s so true. That is so true. That’s a hard one. That’s really painful. I wrote this poem one time, Vinnie, about
how…There was a toxic cocktail of drugs, alcohol, and apathy which caused my entire
reality of my childhood. And it was just a really devastating and painful
poem. It was very poignant and just dark. But it’s so true that toxic cocktail of drugs,
alcohol, apathy, selfishness… I forget what else I wrote. But anyway, yes, yes, yes.Vinnie, yes. Yes. Joey says, “How do I try to explain to someone
that they are being narcissistic?” OK. I’m so happy someone asked this. Guess what? Someone who is being narcissistic, they either
know it and they don’t care or they will twist it on you and they will stab you with it. It will make you the bad guy because they’ll
say, “I was just trying to be thoughtful and I just care about you. And I can’t believe you’re just so awful.” You know, you guys, I’m not a doctor. I’m not a master’s level therapist. I’m not a licensed clinical social worker. But I’m going to tell you right now that
it is not your best interest to try to convince narcissists that they are narcissists because
they just don’t care – or how did Richard Grannon put it a couple years ago? I said, “Richard, can you please explain
to people here in our community how important it is to call “abuse” abuse and just how
it’s important if they’re ever going to heal, they need to call “abuse” abuse. If it’s narcissistic abuse, it’s narcissistic
abuse. It’s not just “Well… whatever left to
me.”” It’s during the summit. And he goes, “Of course.”It’s like the
narcissist is like “Oh, make sure you call the car the car. Yes, the car is a car. Yes, ice cream is ice cream. Yes, a pencil is a pencil;” like to them,
like they don’t care. Of course, you have to call “abuse” abuse. It’s what you have to do to if you’re
going to heal. But I do not recommend Joey that you try convincing
someone or explain to them that they’re being narcissistic. I don’t recommend doing that. If someone else here has found that that has
helped them, then please post that in the comments and share. Oh. Elaine says… Joey. Write this down, Joey. Elaine says, “To purchase a book or give
a book called Without Conscience. Give the person the book or read the book. They won’t buy it.” Simney says they won’t buy the book. Probably, true. There’s a book called Without Conscience. Yeah. Thanks, Elaine. You’re amazing. Let’s see here. Willow, I’m so happy you’re here. Willow says, “If it turns out that I was
sold to traffickers and not, in fact, abducted, would my parents or would my parent be a narcissist? I don’t know whether or not to search for
my father.” Someone who would sell their child or trade
them or give them away for goods and services is disturbed. They have mental problems. And they are at the very, very, very least
self-absorbed and without conscience and, at the very worst, predatory and exploitative. So Willow, I cannot – in good conscience
– recommend that you search for the person who possibly
sold you to the traffickers. If you were abducted, it’s a whole another
thing. Parents – loving parents – all day every
day. It happens. Yeah, they’re psychopathic. Exactly. Elaine’s said they’re psychopathic. Well-meaning and loving parents across the
globe have their children taken from them and had horrible things happen to their children;
and they didn’t do it on purpose to their children. “I think anger makes a narcissist. What do you think?” Oh, I don’t think anger makes a narcissist. Oh, my devices are getting ready to die. This is it. Oh, you know why? Because it’s already, it’s nine, it’s ninety
minutes. It’s like we’re coming up at the end of
our broadcast. Oh my goodness. Yeah, I’m not sure that anger makes a narcissist;
like, it depends on what type of a narcissist they are. There are overt narcissists. There are covert. Oh. Childhood anger, oh, creates this split which
causes them to create a false self which causes narcissistic personality disorder, or psychopathy,
or anti-social. I believe that’s what you’re saying, Queen
Ladybug Star because… Yes. OK. I’m on there. We’re on the same page. Yes. Yes. Yes. Narcissists are created out of trauma. They’re created… They’ve been in a traumatic situation. And sadly, there was a split. Hey Albrax. I’m so excited you’re here. Thanks for all the hearts, you guys, and for
inviting your followers and for re-tweeting. You’reamazing. My devices are going to die because we’re
about out of time. Oh, you escaped. Queen Ladybug Star escaped the narcissist
with her life after twenty-three years. I’m so happy that you made it out. Congratulations that you’re even alive. It took you a lot. You are so smart. And you are so skillful. And you are so brave. And I just want to commend you because it
takes a lot get out after twenty-three years. I did the same thing, after twenty-three years. So good for you. And mine was a parental situation. Yes. Yeah, congratulations. You’re amazing. I’m glad you’re alive. So I’m going to read as many more as I possibly
can, you guys. Willow, if you were abducted, then yes, search
for your father. But if you found out you were sold to traffickers
– which if you were, I’m so, so sorry. I happen to know what it feels like to be
treated and camped out and sort of passed around, like a packed potato or whatever. And it’s painful, like that’s just devastatingly
painful. It’s soul-crushing. But if you were trafficked or you were sold
to traffickers, I cannot recommend in good conscience that you search for that person
because they will not own it. They will not understand the gravity of what
they’ve done to you. And it will only damage you further and it
will cause you secondary trauma. And it will help your healing process or unwind
the progress you’ve made; and you will be so devastated. So I cannot, in good conscience, tell you
that what you should do. But I love you, Willow, and I’m so happy you’re
here. Jessy says, “If my wounds were visible,
people would have believed me. Tears would have had a voice and I wouldn’t
have been scapegoated.”Yes. Yes. Yes, I agree. I’m there with you, Jessy. Jess says, “If my wounds were visible, my
D.I.D. would literally see me more from the different human beings or see me grow into
a second person for nothing.” Exactly. Yes, Jess. I agree. Vinnie says, “Where do you triggers end? Listening to religious talks sucks for me. But religious people don’t stop talking religion
for me.” So, where do triggers end? Where do triggers end? Again, like it’s kind of like what Jack was
saying; like, Jack was saying like “Does it get better?”And I don’t think that like
the things that trigger us… like it’s almost like there’s like this resilience that kicks
in. And we learn to bear the weight things skillfully. And things begin to trigger us less; like,
there are certain things that used to trigger me a lot. And then for some reason, just over time as
I navigated the terrain and just began to really celebrate my wins… Hey. Hi Deborah. I’m so excited you’re here. Welcome. Welcome. Vinnie, like when we navigate the terrain
for a while – like for years, and years, and years, and years – we almost like can
anticipate when something is coming up. And we go, “Oh.”Because like for instance
a trigger, it’s like when something triggers you, and then it’s as though you’re in the
place where the abuse happened or it’s as though you’re in the exact spot where the
trauma took place. Like if for instance like for anyone here
that watching or listening, if you are a Vietnam vet like we were talking with Stew last week…
and you’re a Vietnam vet and there were a lot of shrapnel and things that happened and
there were injuries and the certain sounds or smells that happened when you were at war. When you have something…Here, when you’re
not at war, you smell it or you hear it; and it’s similar. It takes you back. And you’re triggered. It’s as though you were there in Vietnam again. And you don’t have any frame of reference
or even way to gauge that you are not in that place because you’re triggered. That’s a definition of a trigger. So for me, like certain things that my husband
does or says are very, very, very, very triggering for me. But for some reason like… Yes. Sharon says PTSD sucks. I totally agree. Amen. High five.Yes. Yes. Yes, PTSD sucks. So for me, like my husband has not ceased
to exist and he still does the things that trigger me. And for some reason, over time, they trigger
me less. And I don’t go to that place anymore because
I’ve had that conversation with him, or I can see his intent, or I know that he’s not… Like for instance, if you’re raised in an
environment like I was, where people hurt you on purpose…They hurt you on purpose
just to hurt you, like just on purpose. They hurt you just to hurt you because they
like to. They’re sadistic. And so, what I have done… Previously, I thought my husband was doing
these things in a sadistic way, like to hurt me on purpose, because I was triggered and
I was not able to separate what was triggering me to places triggering me to. And think I was somehow like superimposing
my trauma on my husband. And I realized over time as I got to know
him and I got to know his character that he’s not sadistic and that he’s not sadistically
harming me on purpose. He just doesn’t know or it’s just him being
like himself; or like I’ve gotten to know his character over time. And therefore, I’m navigating the terrain
of our relationship differently. And I’m able to tell that when I get triggered
that he’s not sadistically poking at me and harming me on purpose. Oh, Mrs. Baddeck says, “I do that too, Athena,
mistaking his emotional stuff with my emotional stuff.” Yes. Yes. Yes. Hi Charlie. My husband has his own junk and I have my
own junk. And we all have our own junk, right, Vinnie. But I think just like knowing like it’s easy
for us to go like, oh my gosh, I’m in a triggered state right now. And that person is doing this and I’m feeling
very triggered. And it’s almost like, it’s like there’s like
sadism involved or something. But I’m able to sort of separate that now. So I don’t know. I don’t even know if that was helpful. But, I don’t even know if that was helpful. But if it wasn’t, I’m really sorry. I want it to be helpful. Stew says, “If my wounds were visible, you
would know who I am.” Oh, that’s powerful, Stew. Yes. Yes. Yes. Oh my goodness. You guys, we have two minutes left before
our ninety minutes is up. Deborah Ann Simperman says, “If my wounds
were visible, my family would help me get out of my abusive relationship. They believed my abuser.” Oh Deborah. I am so, so, so sorry. I’m so sorry, Deborah. I’m just hoping that someone is able to help
you get out of that abusive relationship. There are so many resources. I want you to be able to reach out to domestic
violence hotlines in RAINN, rainn.org. I want you, if there is something local, you
can reach out too. It is worth being in a shelter temporarily
if you can get out of an abusive relationship. You know who I would love for us to reach
out to is Lindsay. What is Lindsay’s last name now? Oh my goodness, I forgot Lindsay’s last name. Her Twitter handle used to be Tina Bianco
but it’s not now. It’s Lindsay…Oh my goodness. I can’t think of it. Last one. This is the last hashtag. Simone Williams says…Oh, it’s a question. It’s not a hashtag. It’s a question. Simone William says, “Are covert narcissists
able to heal? Is it something that is possible?” You guys, I have never seen or heard of someone
who is truly a narcissist healing. I… Hi Adrian – Adriana. Hi Adriana. Simone Williams, I have never heard of a narcissist
actually healing. Lindsay Fisher! Oh my goodness. It was going to drive me crazy all night. Thank you so much. You guys, I love for you to reach out to Lindsay
Fisher if you are in a domestic violence situation. She is an amazing resource. I want you to really reach out to her. It would be incredible for you to be able
to reach out to her. So Simone Williams, my quick answer is I don’t
believe so. Covert narcissism is so sadistic. It is just so saddle. And it’s like you can’t prove it. And there’s so much gaslighting and psychological
warfare. And it is so painful. It is so, so, so painful because we want the
narcissist to heal. Many of us wish the narcissist would just
heal so they could see the love we have for them – unconditional love we have for them. Or we wish our narcissist would heal so that
they could finally receive the love we have for them. Or we wish our narcissist would heal so that
they will know that we forgive them and we just want a relationship with them. And all of that is magical thinking, and sadly,
it keeps us stuck and it keeps us sick. So during our narcissistic abuse virtual summit
on World Narcissistic Abuse Awareness Day, Simone Williams… I don’t know where you are at, whether you’re
here on Roku and YouTube, or if you’re up on Facebook, or if you are here on Periscope
during World Narcissistic Abuse Awareness Day on June first. And throughout the month of June, we are e-mailing
you different expert interviews. We will be covering this exact question, Simone
Williams – “Are covert narcissists able to heal? Is it something that is even possible?”We’ll
be covering that. We’ll be discussing what narcissism is. What causes it? Can narcissists heal from being narcissist? And just what to do if we’re in a narcissistically
abusive relationship and what steps to take. “Athena, without meaning to sound critical,
how does this help us?” How does what help us? I’m hoping this broadcast. I’m so sorry if this broadcast wasn’t helpful
for you guys. I’m hoping this is helpful for you guys. I thought this would be really helpful, just
for everybody to know that they’re not alone. So I’m not sure. But I’m so glad that you guys were here. And I hope that this was helpful for you – to
just be in community with others. And I do believe this is a powerful conversation
to be having. I believe that if the world, at large, knew
what was really, really, really going on… If they could see the bruises, and the cuts,
and the blood, and the gore, and just the soul destroying-ness of narcissistic abuse
and emotional abuse, and just everything that we’ve gone through – if the world could
see that, then all of us would have been helped. And I believe that it is extremely cathartic
and therapeutic to educate the world and to save future survivors so that they’re not
survivors. So they actually get rescued and I believe
that it’s very important. This is, we want it. We want there to be education going out into
the world and just about the pathology of narcissism. I believe that’s really hugely valuable. So I hope this is helpful. And thank you so much for being here. My name’s Athena Moberg and I love sharing
a message of hope and healing with you guys. And I’m going to be starting another YouTube
channel. I have a lot of you asking me for, during
these broadcasts, like sending me messages, letter, like, “Will you consider praying
with us?” “Will you consider sharing Scripture?” “Will you consider doing like worship songs?”“Will
you consider doing Bible study with us?” And what I want to do, as an out of respect
for the huge amount of the community here on this channel – sixty percent, between
sixty and sixty percent – who incurred religious abuse or cult abuse…So out of respect and
courtesy to all of them, I’m not going to be sharing worship songs, and Scripture, and
prayer here on this channel. I’m starting another channel. And I would point you in that direction and
make sure that you have prayer, and Bible study, and worship, and resources, and everything
that you need. But I want this to be a space where anyone
can come and feel welcomed, and they don’t have to have any type of faith or anything
like that. So hopefully, that will be helpful for you. I’ll share that with you as it comes up. So thank you so much for being here. Please go to WNAAD.com and sign up for World
Narcissistic Abuse Awareness Day. And get free access to all of the expert speakers
and just feel validated, and affirmed, and encouraged. And then, gain access to education on the
pathology of narcissism. So you can educate yourself; and then, share
that education with others. And then, we can help save people that are
potentially in a situation where they would be narcissistically abusive. So thank you for being here, guys. I really always appreciate it. And I’ll see you next Monday 6 PM Pacific,
9 PM Eastern, right here on Trauma Recovery University. And thank you so much. Bye everybody.

10 thoughts on “The Invisible Wounds of Narcissistic Abuse: #IfMyWoundsWereVisible

  1. If my wounds were visible…. the nurse in the mental ward wouldn't have told the other nurses that my mother is lovely and I'm just attention seeking and manipulative. :'(

  2. really enjoyed last night, first time taking part. im a survivor of multiple incest abuses, severe beatings and covert narcissistic abuses. been watching your videos now for a long time, very soothing and educational, thankyou both for your kindness and empathy.

  3. Thank you !once again describing the hell we endured as children and the legacy of problems we live with because of it . Social services need to see you're videos and the damage these people cause to their innocent children x

  4. Maybe I shouldn't say this, but all the "Hi's" and "Hello's" in the middle of sentences and thoughts are very distracting and makes it so hard to follow along. Especially with PTSD. It takes everything I have to not click off. I understand your desire to connect and maybe midway through you could have a 5 minute recess to say a special hello to everyone.

  5. If my wounds were visible, I would not have been alone, confused and afraid all my life. I am no longer alone or afraid now with this community, but I still have much work to do.

  6. If My Wounds Were Visible, There'd Be Millions Of People Who Would Clearly Understand Why So Many Survivors Of Narcissistic Abuse Are Refusing To Remain Silent.

  7. God Bless you, Athena, please ignore the few ignorant haters because you are a blessing and this was extremely helpful!!❤️❤️❤️

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